Cyclocross Race Season
November 18th, 2008 |Having completed my first full year of a Minnesota cyclocross season I am now of course an expert!
I am not sure if the current system is the way things have always been for CROY, but the way the system was run for 2008 all races (with the exception of the state championships for some reason) gave CROY points and gave the same amount of points. All the races for the cross season were of equal value for CROY. I think that it should be done differently.
It is clear, without getting into the details, that some races are better than others. Better organization, better course, a better representation of what a cyclocross event should be. CROY, instead of rewarding these events and their promoters, actually rewards the events and promoters who organize 2nd tier races by valuing them at the same rate as the 1st tier races.
I understand the goal of supporting promoters and their races, and I am in favor of it within reason. But I am also a believer in the free market system when it comes to bike racing. Let the promoters charge what they want, design the course how they want, etc. The market will determine if the race is successful. CROY is artificially supporting some races by artificially inflating their real value.
I am not saying that these 2nd tier races should lose their participation in CROY, I just think that there needs to be an acknowledgment that some races should be worth more in the overall than others. In the end, because the cross season is so compressed in Minnesota, I find it hard to believe that if a particular event’s CROY points were reduced that it would mean a smaller turnout of participants. But I think it would be of value to give race promoters something to aspire to when they put their races together. If everyone is going to show up anyway, and all the points are the same regardless of event, where would my motivation be as a promoter to really bring my race up to the next level? If my race only awarded 50% CROY points compared to a tier 1 event then I might be motivated to make some changes to my event!
I think market pressures could also play a part in the season as well. Give the 1st tier events the protection of the race calendar with no conflict to assure that turnout remains high. However, what if I have a great idea for a new race and really believe that I could promote a good event, but the calendar is already full of events? Am I going to be shut out from the calendar? Or will I have the option of competition with a 2nd tier event?
Cross Rider of the Year, in my opinion, should reflect more than who won the most races. It should be used to put additional value in the races where the promoter goes the extra mile to give participants a true cyclocross experience.
Those of you who have raced cyclocross for more than one season may hold another opinion.
43 Responses to “Cyclocross Race Season”
Wouldn’t the idea of weighting the higher-turnout events in CRY scoring have a circular effect, thus making the big events bigger? (and stifling any growth in the lesser attended events)
Not that you’re wrong, there IS a difference in promotion quality of some events vs. others but I think giving everything CRY status is the only fair way to do it. If the end goal is to reward the promoters putting on the higher quality events, maybe there’s a better way to do it.
Maybe more point should be awarded to the events with Beer and betting. Seems popular among the indoor crowd…………
@a. kruse: I don’t know what the turnout levels are but I am not proposing rewarding races based upon turnout. I am proposing a more subjective review based on some pre-agreed upon cyclocross race standards.
For example: Perhaps a true cyclocross race in Rochester might attract fewer riders than a dirt crit single track race in St. Paul. But I think the Rochester race should be worth more points than the St. Paul race.
You’re beginning to sound like Jason Lewis, with all that free market, cream rises to the top oration.
As for the different cats and non-participation in CROY, I think that started when we wanted a SS class, and it allows juniors, and for that matter all cats to be included for medals. We also didn’t allow monetary awards, just medals and schwag for state championships, which I wish were still the case.
@baba: hey, I am all for subsidies so long as we are subsidizing what we really want, not just subsidizing what we already have.
savvy?
oops. forgot the sarcasm smiley.
Did I mention Figure 8 course?
I agree with Smithers.
There are a few events that do not strive to improve their product every year. They are rewarded with CRY points, among other things. The MCF should implement a system of basic standards to be included on their race calendar, or in their CRY competition.
There is clearly more races than dates available. It is about time that events that add zero value to the calendar be removed.
My first vote for exclusion?
I can’t tell you that.
However, there are clearly some Tier 1 events:
Green Acres
Hudson 1.0
Powderhorn/Boom
Red Barn
St. Cloud
VeloCX
State CX
I may be missing a few, but there are some events that seem to be content with just publishing the previous years flyer a few weeks before race day. Like smithers, I am okay with that, but why should new promoters not be given a chance to get on the calendar?
i see the problem a’comin though….
whos to judge the quality of a “true” cross race. Would we use uci standards? If so, many of S.R.’s races wouldnt make the grade. Those who are good at twisty-technical course would poo-poo the longer-stretched out ones like states.
hell, never mind…
what do I care, its all good and I’m aiming for the 45+ CROY. By then you should have it all worked out.
fpa
They’re looking for someone to organize CRY next year. You could step up and revamp it yourself. Then wait for the message board fallout next year.
In the words of Jerry Seinfeld…. “Have fun with all that”
Heard it all and everyone has good points. In the end, it’ll result in some balance for everyone. The same cheers and complaints will arise and the next year, people will strive to make it better.
It hasn’t been officially announced but I’ve stepped down from as coordinator but the position is filled for next year though.
He can make himself known to the blogger world, when he sees fit. But he’ll certainly do a great job at it.
Um, how about eliminating CRotY. Then there wouldn’t be a problem. You have the state championship and that’s it.
what steven said
When who ever already stepped up for CRY 2009 decides that they have had enough I would be happy to take it on.
it doesn’t take long to get to enough.
Eliminate CRY…problem solved
CRY and ROY have become a perfect attendance award for riders….trust me, I know
Your free market theory will work just the same. The good events will attract the most people and the crappy events will fade away
@Dan Cleary: my question would be:
If it’s such a pain in the ass, and the guys who win or finish at the top don’t even care about it, what is CRY worth then?
maybe it should get dumped.
here, here!
i’d recommend abolishing it. how about instead of the USGP Crank Bros. series, we create our own MNGP Time series… 6 races. serious sponsorship by Time, Summit, and others. Big time promotion, big time dollars. Real beer, waffles, frites, tents.
No reason we can’t do a our own version of Jingle Cross.
Who cares about the CROY? Cue the crickets…
@Steve E: fewer and fewer it appears…
chirp……chirp…..chirp……+1
I had this idea that was poo poo’d by (never mind) about 10 years ago. What do you guys think? A two day, three race CX stage race. I thought a Saturday short (7-10 minute) TT, a mass start short course, and a mass start long course on Sunday. Chip timing, of course. Say 35 bucks for the weekend.
isn’t that the called the Maplelag Laddies Loppet (’cept on CX bikes instead of Mtn bikes)
sun prarie wisconsin had a race on the UCI calender for christsakes, the major wood can put on a production for state cross lets make the season, may mean losing or modifying the race schedule… 2 races every weekend for eight weeks vs. 3-6 races that draw real crowds i’ll take the latter
I thought CRY, ROY, etc was intended to encourage participation by giving recognition to a wider array of racers. Yes, it does reward those who make the effort to show up for more races. It rewards those that make the effort to go to outstate venues. This was intentional, right? Is it a magical elixer formula that determines the “best” bike rider – probably not. But is that the point of it?
i was mistaken there were many races from UCI cyclocross calender in the USA this year….there needs to be some consultation with/among promoters to see how minnesota can spend the money to achieve some real sport in minnesota, nvgp is not the only thing we have going on
You can’t tell someone that wants to put on a race on an open date that they can’t put on a race. I think having a tiered schedule is a good idea though. It can be a positive thing for different races to have different goals.
Season series competitions always reward perfect attendance. This is because promoters like it that way i.e. having incentives to show up whether you are riding well or not. Yeah, I have issues with that, but that’s why things tend to work that way.
When my kid was younger she got awards at bike races for showing up. That doesn’t happen any more now that she’s older. I would encourage phasing out participation awards for MCF riders, sort of like they do in the transition from elementary school to middle school athletics. I’m not expecting that to happen though.
MNSCS series for example. In a 10 race series, only your best 7 races counted. Points also went a lot deeper (1st – 150pts, 2nd – 142, 3rd – 135, 4th – 129, etc.). It gets more people “up on the board” and encourages them to show up for at least 7 races.
We keep hearing how hard it is for promoters to have events that are solvent. We need more riders! Series competitions are one way get more people’s skin in the game and to keep them coming back. Isn’t that the point?
based upon what I have heard, turnout at cross events this year has been pretty good. not a surprise for such a compressed season. more turnout would always be better, but I am skeptical in the extreme that CRY gets extra bodies to the races.
Wrong. Hasn’t worked so far.
if we toss out the CROY and ROY then we’d better boycott the surchage.. ROY and the MCF banquet where peeps grab their ROY award are the only real kick back that we racers get to enjoy. the mcf account has stock piled nearly 30k in surcharges from us and our license renewal kick backs. i don’t think we should kill them but modify them and throw some $$ at them so there is more incentive created.. nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd. don’t take chances by reversing any trends.. modify/update them and make them better.
The two day events intrigue me, because as it is now out state races suffer if there is a local event on the same weekend. Everybody picks one, usually the closer, and attendance is hurt. It might mean less team events, but there is no reason clubs couldn’t ’share’ a weekend. States is a little different, but HWood, KWood and BWood have shared the last two events. It would also weed out the ho-hum courses.
btw, Giants Ridge was the first MTB stage race I know (1990 or earlier) of, at least in MN. TT, Hill climb, DH and XC. It was points based from time. I was thinking time only.
re: uci cx race-
They cost $23,000 minimum to promote (two day event). If you the cash email me and I will get back to you. It is a long process and there are a lot of hoops to jump through (like the need to have showers on site). You also have calendar placement issues etc…deadline for ‘09 passes in less than 30 days.
re: croy-
I am with Timmer. The MCF needs to spend some of the sweet money on various competitions and other ways to get more people out.
re: cross schedule-
We need a drastic overhaul of the entire thing. Cleary did a great job of facilitating some changes, but promoters failed to be involved (and continued to promote sub-par events). It is time that the MCF uses their muscle and does it the right way, after the MCF is in charge of promoting the growth of cycling in Minnesota. I would hope that means that basic requirements are met to be listed on the published calendars.
UCI race is an example,
give me 6 races a season well put together; good course, spectators and who am i kidding… fuck the prizes i ain’t getting any
6 A list races supported by the currently ~12 promoters(i think?) for cx races this year and we will have something to be proud of and increased participation and support why cx cause its a shorter season and easier to get a managerial handle on
Maybe we should just make all Minnesota races UCI events. Taking it one small step further, what about doing several World Cups here in the process. Maybe someone should check on cross worlds for 2009, have they decided a venue yet for that?
ped, are you being an ass or just half assed..
ahem…
I am with Bloodline on this. CX in MN is good why not weed out the weak and put on some big ass events?
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Like promoting it to local businesses?
Send out flyers to the local area/schools/collages around the location?
This is standard stuff here…
Ped, if we can’t get them all to be UCI events maybe we could get them as part of the Barnum and Bailey Circus. We could have cx Bavarian miss-n-outs and trackstand competitions in the sand pit…
This is standard stuff here…
Right, so easy that anyone could do it, yet no one does…
The world is full of people who can do a better job at everything.
You can’t tell someone that wants to put on a race on an open date that they can’t put on a race. And frankly I’m not sure you would want to.
You can make some races more important than others. Think of a two tiered schedule as having a development circuit for promoters. That way when Powderhorn gets canned you have options.
Not all races should serve the same constituencies. Some should have high production values, cowbells, chip timing, UCI aspirations. Some should target new riders, you know, like happen outside USAC so that new riders don’t get clipped for the single day. Some should be low key and cheap and easy to run.
This ‘One size fits all’ stuff is for retards.
@Bob Schwartz: the same retards that ride in the basement all winter?
Basements of the world are full of ‘em.
And I’m not sure you are going to get them out of there, what with NASCAR on TV year round.
Let’s face it, cross is a culture that grows like all cultures. In 95 we were still throwing logs in the trail to dismount riders. It was super fun, but we would get 60-70 riders. Around 275 for this years race. A Seven, 2 BMC’s and some customs in the D race. BTW, let’s get Sam Ofterdahl a cross bike.