Smithers MINNEAPOLIS

Also… it would cut down on presentation time at the banquet (if there is one) and allow for more serious drinking and bs’ing.

Just an outside perspective.

The problem is we have too few racers to do it right.

Remember how I beat you in the Cat3 State Keirin Championships in 2006?

That was awesome.

Having won state championships on the road in time trials

i’m gonna need a new keyboard… i spit coffee all over mine.

You were still a fetus.

no, it was just now.

i think i got it pretty good with a napkin though…

No arguments here concerning categories for awarding state champions. All of this banter over ROY and how to define the different race fields is a futile game of musical chairs. I agree with CXSteven that the real problem is too few racers. Promoters will continue to struggle in this small pond of USCF licensced riders. We keep hearing about how the local bike scene is “fractured” between the interests of roadies, mtbers, trackies, tri-geeks, etc. Well, un-fracture the attitudes to get better solvency. I’ve tried to get some other riding buddies to take up the road scene, but nothing has really changed. I tell them that it is a really unique experience and a real thrill ride, but they still see it as ultra-competitive and too big of a jump in seriousness.

Masters 40+… Smithers don’t even think about it. Trust me!… I’m still licking my wounds from the 35-39year olds.

Read in full-(too complicated fer ME–)but…damn that baby Smithers is ADORABLE!!

agreed on 40+, dan.

plus, if you do throw a 40+ race, then 95% of the 50+ d-bags will boycott the race and cause you to lose money on your event.

not that i’m bitter…

dis and LGR against 50+ fields.

my gravatar works!

Having won state championships on the road in time trials
I need to see proof of these. Please post pics of kid smithers wearing these state championship medals.

My $.02 abolish ROY

and quit bastardizing my last name

My very first mass-start USCF road race a few years ago was the 30+ 4/5 state championships. I took 3rd and thought I was the bomb. looking back a couple years, I would agree that being a state medalist in anything but the higher categories is not really something to tell other (noncycling) folks all about, at least not without significant qualification (”yeah, I did well in my category, but there’re hundreds of others better than me who never medalled and would’ve kicked my *ss”).

In southern Ohio where I live now there are more races that don’t feature masters categories. So I (as a 40+ formerly overmatched 3 but current 4) now race with all age groups, which has its disadvantages. At the same time, the elimination of most masters races allows the 3s to run with the 3s, and the 4s to run with the 4s, and the 5s to … you get the picture. I think partly as a result of this, the lower categories are more stable than I remember them being in MN: 4s can stay 4s, be relatively successful, and not get pressured to upgrade.

Are there too many ROY categories? Yes.

I had hoped to reduce the number of categories last year, but I was soundly voted down with my reduced categories proposals last year…..

I changed the categories last year based on:
1) the numbers of racers in each category/age group
2) retain categories for juniors/womens fields which we need to grow.

This year, however, saw a reduction in racers in some fields. Here’s a simple chart based on questionable statistics… I merely counted the number of total finishers in the ROY events for the top 10 overall placings.

men 1/2: 57 (2007), 54 (2008)
men 3: 67 (2007), 51 (2008): -24%
men 4: 44 (2007), 43 (2008)
masters 3/4: 67 (2007 as masters 4/5), 66 (2008)
masters 35+: 70 (2007), 69 (2008)
women 1/2: 30 (2007), 25 (2008): -17%
women 3: 41 (2007), 32 (2008): -22%

Do I change categories again because of the changes in numbers for this year? Possibly.

The biggest fields appear to be the masters and men 3/4 fields. Should I combine the largest groups of racers? I suspect more than a few racers will stop racing the massive fields….

I’m still thinking about this….

Great picture of the young ‘un!

I’ve not yet raced on a bike, but I do know from experience in running that once you’ve gotten a certain # of runners, it becomes imperative to require certain qualification times, or else the “wannabes” ruin the running experience for all of those who actually can run, say, a five or six minute pace.

And if anyone’s feeling slow, well, you can compare yourself to me and know that there’s someone yet slower. But having fun at it!

I’ll be over with my “real” medals.. the only season that counts

Son,

I am disgusted over your use of the word boner.

Twice.

That’s NOT how I raised you!

Love,

Mom

…boy that gravitar deal took the wind out of that one didn’t it?

Love,

Mom -er I mean JRoosh

Here’s how a state with a fraction of MN’s population does it. Note that there is a separate break-out called “age-graded” that lets people compare themselves to others their age, independent of the actual ROY/BAR categories. This might make everyone happy…

Also note there is a Cat 3 women’s field – I’ve been hearing a lot of requests from women for a Cat 3 field (as it is women don’t want to upgrade straight from newb to racing against the Cat 1s).

I think in this case the old guys are ruining cycling and America. Why do they hate the two?

I like Kruser’s comment a while back. Race your ability not your age. Combine the ages, but separate the 3’s from the 4’s from the 5’s. Viola.

The only quasi plausible excuse I have heard (but I still think is mostly bullshit) is that the masters categories are safer because they racers are closer to retirement and no one takes any risks. It’s just garbage. Crashes can happen at anytime. If 3’s didn’t have to race with 4’s it would be safer. After 5 years of racing with “the dumb kids” the first crash I had in a race was as a Cat 2.

How do you expect me to become an experienced and safe rider as a cat 4? … by sticking me in with the 3’s? Now, not only don’t I have the experience, but now the pace has me seeing stars. That’s why the masters think it is dangerous. If an old man cat 3 raced in an all ages cat 3 only race, it would be much less “dangerous”.

It’s so simple. If we don’t have large enough fields to fill up each category separately, then there is no need for a age distinction as well. When each category separately fills up to the limit at pre-reg, then add more categories to make more money (if you can run the event that long). But certainly don’t reward people for choosing to race with a narrower field.

Cat 6 is working on a race next year that will finally allow Cat 5’s to race with Cat 5’s and Cat 4’s to race with Cat 4’s. As long as we are promoting we won’t be playing the age game. We don’t need ROY to attract crowds we have beer and ninjas.

You’re right…that fucking tree is dying.

DS

I’m one of the plausible excuse guys..

I’ve raced all over the US and find, from experience, that 35+ races are safer then a cat 3 race.

When I lived in Colorado I almost quit racing because every cat 3 race I did there was as a crash or someone willing to take an insane risk or horrible line….I switched to racing 35+ and yes there were still a few crashes – far far less then the 3s races. The 35+ guys were more experienced and took less risks and stupid lines. If CO would have adopted the “race your category” philosophy they would have lost a ton of racers.

I’ve raced 35+ open, 35+ 3/4s and 3s races this year in MN and will tell you that the 35+ open and 35+ 3/4 races are safer then the 3s.

Wow! Now this is the kind of posts that makes Smithers worth reading. SmitherMPLS is finally really back!! Yahoo!!

It’s funny how categorized racing, which emerged as a sort of learner’s permit system to protect the serious racers from getting crashed by the beginners in gym shoes on Schwinn Varsities, has evolved into an end in itself. And it’s okay. It beats the binge drinking Lance Armstrong is into these days.

I think categorization should be measured on equipment investment. If you’re showing up to the start line of a Cat 3 race with a two to five grand investment in bike gear you should either be bumped up to the real race or locked up for a 72 hours evaluation.

As for the categorized championships, they are fine. But maybe the medals should come with an asterix like my cat 3 bodybuilding medals. Seriously though, it’s a sort of cool concept. You start racing in a lower category, you win the state championships in that category and you know you have the dedication to move up. I think they are fine. Although being a pro cat 4 is something lost on me, especially the ones who dope.

Fondos? America is primo for fondos. Look at the success of FH50, the Birkie and Chequamegon. America is frothing at the bit for more fondos. If they can shut down cities for jogging 26 miles in under 12 hours, they can shut down anything.

If they can shut down cities for jogging 26 miles in under 12 hours, they can shut down anything

is that jogging or yogging? it might be a soft j…