Smithers MINNEAPOLIS

Why even have a team if there are no tactics? They’re not lame, except I agree that blocking is not only lame but unsafe. Tactics could even help prevent someone from lapping the field. It’s ‘role’ not ‘roll’ by the way.

blocking is not only lame but unsafe

How so? I think that most people can avoid ramming into others in front of them.

The only real tactic ever employed at the velodrome is when to drop out of the race to mobile blog about some drama. I’d do this but I’m too busy letting kids down by not winning dressed as spidy.

I think he was saying that tactics wouldn’t have kept everyone from getting lapped multiple times by Bergman. however, racers who are getting lapped (multiple times) shouldn’t be talking about their aspirations of attending the national championships. but i agree, team tactics are a huge part of track racing. and will be even more so next year.. when homme, tone, pramann, the t’aint and me put together one hell of a team.

JT said it best too; there’s a big difference between ‘team tactics’ and simple track ediquette.. and some people havn’t figured that out yet..

OK – so what’s the pinnacle of track racing? (at least now) Six Days and World Cups/Worlds. We’ll throw the sixes out the window since they’re purpose-designed team events, and look at World Cups/Worlds.

In a points or scratch race at a WC or Worlds, you have *maybe* one teammate. Maybe. That’s if you both progressed to the final. So there’s really no “teams” to speak of. To my understanding, this is the way that track racing has traditionally worked.

I got royally worked over in both the scratch and points races out in Encino last Labor Day, where Rock Racing had eight riders in the field. Both days I had legs for precisely one move. Every rider who was not a Rock rider, save for Dan Holloway (elite national crit champ) got royally screwed by one large team controlling the field. Honestly, it was lame. Not that I would have done any differently if I were on Rock – it was a regional/national level event and there was a lot of money up for grabs, and money talks – but it was definitely lame. Both times I threw in my moves, Rashaan Bahati felt it necessary to go with me and screw me like a drunk prom date. Sour grapes? Probably.

Sitting on a chase without contributing? Taking short pulls? Counter attacking after a team mate gets caught? Lame? I don’t think so.

I would generally agree with that – but would say that such isn’t team tactics, per se – it’s just racing smart, and looking out for yourself. Counterattacking a move is textbook tactics 101 no matter who it is your countering, teammate or not. Sitting on a chase is fine, I just think we have too many guys at our track who are capable of *only* sitting on…. thusly, the racing get sllllooooww, at times….

good luck with your philosophy.. you’re gonna need it.

I don’t think we should be discussing this as this topic was dealt on bikethrow dot com. my guess is that you will get an email about this with 10min of posting said topic asking for you not to discuss it

…

team tactics on the track are not lame, but they shouldn’t be that big of a deal until people don’t get lapped AT WILL.

How ’bout this: Everyone pitches in $5 and I’ll just ride Bergman at the rail the whole race.

I’m glad I’m a sprinter.

i open the BTDC site and i have a seizure when i see all the text. it doesn’t lay out well on my screen.

$5 for that for sheezy Taylor!

Timmer-update your web browser or complain to Homme.

morgan said:

How so? I think that most people can avoid ramming into others in front of them.

Bullcrap. I’ve seen blocking on the track and I’ve seen crashes, you’ve got 15-20 guys going hard then all of a sudden the guy on the front slows it down and slightly swerves??? If you’re the guy on his wheel how do you avoid the crash? Remember spiderman, we don’t have brakes and usually don’t have an out, with guys stacking up behind us, next to us, etc. I’ve been taken down by the Thundering Herd kids from Iowa doing this and last year in the first week of racing somebody almost took down JT doing this. You do this in a race with me and I’ll have Timmer throw your fucking spidey pj’s in the river!

how many laps will you ride bergman at the rail? 2 or 3 before you get tired and drop out? That won’t cut it, he’ll still be able to catch up. My advice? Save your $5 bucks for DQ…

the biggest problem with the track and its racers is that EVERYONE is over-categorized. that’s not meant to be an offensive statement. it a fact. i seriously don’t think you should be able to race beyond your road category. no exception. etiqutte on the track is learned the hard way with dangerous results.

Hehe…My fat ass could keep him up there indefinitely.

You enduro guys are lucky to have someone like that to race against. Embrace it.

Bullcrap. I’ve seen blocking on the track and I’ve seen crashes, you’ve got 15-20 guys going hard then all of a sudden the guy on the front slows it down and slightly swerves??? If you’re the guy on his wheel how do you avoid the crash?

You have way more experience than I do so I can’t argue with the 7 maybe 8 race nights I’ve got under my belt. But from what Ive heard, mostly from you… The track is a safe place that aside from this year has relatively few crashes. From my personal experience, in all racing, its a matter of paying attention. I’m 100% certain I am not the only one who can tell when a rider is about to do something other than ride forward at a constant speed. I admit during the race, when your tired and just wanting to survive you might over look these signals and worry about how bad your lungs burn, then some one slows down and you plow into them. Its just like driving a car when you are running late, trying to find your cd’s, talking on the phone, all while eating your egg mcmuffin. You won’t see the light change or the rode turn, since your priorities where not on safety they where on doing everything else. There is always time to react but you won’t do that right until you have gained the experience. Timmer said it and I agree that people haven’t built up skill. I think they have just built up trust. Thats just my opinion tho, I’ll have to race/win a couple hundred more times for that to become valid.

The spidy suit got ruined at orno when it ripped. They went from $9.99 to $64.99. So spiderman isn’t likely to come back anytime soon. Unless I choose the lame regular red and blue or some coked out yellow or white version.

i think everyone that races on the velodrome should be subject to a mass-start test.. one set up with category specific requirements. e.g. if you are a cat 3 you have to pass a cat 3 mass-start test time.. if you fail you get bumped down a cat until you can race your way back to a FITNESS level representative of your category ability. this may elliminate racers who “sit n sprint” and who are ‘over-categorized’

individual timed event participants and sprinters wouldn’t be subject to this unless they wanted to compete in mass start events.

What is the intent of categorization in US Cycling? Is it to categorize riders by experience or ability? If it is ability then the Timmer scheme makes sense. What do they do in Europe? Are amateur races based on categories?

Smithers is right, I’m too slow to be a Cat 2, however, I am too sexy to be a Cat 3, what to do?

Two words smithers: “Joop” and “Zoetemelk”

on the raod for USAC is basically performance based on results.. wuhich is the culmination of abiltiy fitness and experience.. some guys/gals learn faster and move up quick, some are athletic but have no clue.. i think the USAC road system for the most part works although many are over cat’d there too.

however on the track you have/had a blank canvas from the start. the sport is much smaller (and statistically younger) but growing. 70-80% come over from road.. the ‘others’ are new to the sport all together. the ‘others’ are the one’s who create the big experince and ability gaps. the smaller fields and frequency and quantity of races allow them to move through the ranks fast. now, we have guys like bergman coming on board.. it makes it obvious that yes, tactiaclly most are on the same playing field but the ability levels are all out of wack. i was kinda shocked to see some pretty solid track guys coming off the back of the hopkins crit… in the freakin 3s race. don’t think that road ability is anything lass than track ability. but the reverse argumant doesn’t hold. a mass start test could balance out how track racing is structured at blaine. discuss.

Spednix

So what do you think is a time in the 3k mass st test that would justify cat 2 ranking?

And what standard would you propose be established for sprinter types? track racing isn’t all 100 lap points and scratch races.

Even if you don’t think tactics shouldn’t happen doesn’t mean they won’t. And even if you absolutely suck, you aren’t going to get better without some sort of tactic.

You have to be ready for tactics legal and illegal. It’s not that you plan to fail, but you fail to plan.

People are going to block. That is always acceptable. Crashing, however, is not a wise counter tactic.

The most important tactic in a crash is to ride over those on the ground and not to fall on them.

If you suck, your main tactic should be figuring out who is good and doing your best to stay on their wheel no matter what for as long as possible. It’s sort of like shadowing at a new job and helps you learn where to be and what to do. When you blow up doing this and get lapped, make sure you get back on that same wheel. Consistency pays off and eventually your body will learn how to ride effectively in a pack.

As for tactics in the pack. It’s important to be aware that teams don’t necessarily work together and opponents often do. Often there is cash involved, especially at the upper levels. It was well known that Urs Frueller paid pretty much the entire field to ensure another rainbow jersey in the Points Race. This happens a lot. Make sure you get paid up front and then beat them anyways.

It’s always important to use the dominant team or alliance to work for you. Probably the best tactic a solo rider can use against a team is use them to block.

Say they got a rider or two off the front in a break. Use the 50 meters after a points sprint or other opportune lull to get clear of the pack by accelerating hard from the back (or using the guys sprinting for points as a lead out) and pass the break before they know you’re there.

Done properly, this will effectively put that protected break into the position of blocking for you. Effectively you will have guys blocking for you in the field and in the now chase group which will have a hard time upping its tempo to catch you.

Often times that original break will get caught and you will be far enough clear that people will forget you are out there and quit chasing. You can get points and often a lap. Needless to say it’s important to go for laps in a points race.

Did someone say (weed)fix?

Shit, I sure hope I don’t have to try and pass any sort of mass-start test.

I’m a cat 4 on the road, and would get popped off most any road race or crit. But I’ll be on the podium for TRACK racing at Elite Nats.

Also, who could forget that Ferris won the state scratch race. He got pulled from the Hopkins crit.

i have no idea but the concept should be considered.. maybe based on a percentage of the ‘elite’ time. what do you think?

mass start races are mass start races.. match sprints are match sprints, pursuits are pursuits I don’t see the grey area there.

the closest i came to crashing this year was when franz and hanz went early in a top heavy points race (can’t remember name; cleveland steamer? donkey punch points?) but the guy was going about 15 in the sprinters lane when we came by him 5 deep up the track. then he pulled out. if a sprinter wants to do a mass start race they should be subject to the same test.

Wasn’t me. I finished that one, and didn’t even get lapped!

timmer – I’m not saying the idea is without merit, just wondering what you had in mind for an exact time.

I think a percentage based off locals would be a better idea than a percentage based off nationals. i.e. 10% of the fastest local time. meaning if the fastest local is a 3:43, 4:08 would be the cut.

I also don’t think it’s a good idea to separate categorizations for sprint events vs. endurance events at the local level…. local racing should be more about development than elitism….

ferris is a cat 1 so i would hope he’d have a state win once in a while.

and i know it wasn’t you.. it was Ted.. it wasn’t malitious.. but it was a stupid rookie move.. he shoulda swung up track (with you).. not by rule of racing but by rule of ettiquette

Regarding Ferris, I was just pointing out that he was one of the riders who got popped off the back of a Cat 3 crit. He also would not have made the 10% time standard based on a 4K pursuit. Yet he’s in contention in nearly every race.

I just don’t believe there’s a whole lot of correllation between roadie cat and track cat. I’m not completely against some sort of time standard, but I prefer to let results speak for themselves.

“I also don’t think it’s a good idea to separate categorizations for sprint events vs. endurance events at the local level…. local racing should be more about development than elitism….”

how is it ‘elitest’ to serarate the guys who can go 40mph for 300 meters froim the guys who go 27 mph for 10miles. they’re different beasts. ask them? is it a bad idea?

“local racing should be more about development than elitism….”

this is opposite of the speedfix philosophy from what i’ve read:

“It does absolutely no good for us, or for the state of the racing scene at Blaine, to get out there and pull lame team tactics on anyone else. That doesn’t teach anyone how to race, nor does it make anyone stronger or better prepared to compete at a national level. Both Ben’s were pretty insistent about this. We are less of a “team” in the road racing sense than we are a group of people collectively seeking sponsorship and support.”

or the lack thereof?
???

“Regarding Ferris, I was just pointing out that he was one of the riders who got popped off the back of a Cat 3 crit. He also would not have made the 10% time standard based on a 4K pursuit. Yet he’s in contention in nearly every race.

I just don’t believe there’s a whole lot of correllation between roadie cat and track cat. I’m not completely against some sort of time standard, but I prefer to let results speak for themselves.”

that’s just it.. everyone is in contention until a cat 1 roadie shows up. adam has no track experience outside of blaine! and when does ferris take any initiative? never! he’s a sit n sprint. that ain’t good for racing structure when the shit hits the fan. and he ain’t alone.

There are tonz of etiquette violations out there, and therein lies the conundrum. Currently the categorization at our track is a combination of experience and ability. I mean, I have had some results to get to a 2, I did a 3:53 3k for christsakes! But I’ve seen tonz of bad etiquette at the track in the past year. I have been known to yell at a track rider or two in the heat of a race when he does somnething dumbassed and dangerous. Maybe not nice but hey, I’ve exceeded my allocation of splinters already. The experience/etiquette problem comes from guys riding the track once a week, just to race. You see it in the warmups, guys don’t know that you should stay above the stayers line to pace or ride slow, do not go in the purusit lane unless you are busting a nut! Riders also do not know that you don’t mindlessly ride at the rail either or hang on the rail and bs because guys will be dropping in doing a flying 2 effort. I learned real quick at Colorado Springs, if you hear somebody say RAIL!, they are going to the rail and going to do a flying 2. While Timmers idea may have some merit, experienced guys can hang in and exceed their ability while riding smart and they shouldn’t automatically be subjected to riding with the uncleaned masses. I could see fasttracking road guys who are cat 2 on the road. I don’t see much point to them laboring in the 4 field and laboring in the 3 field when they already have the speed and group riding skillz.

Smithers is right on, ,
the only circus race that the SkibbyCat endorses is the blackjack points race!!! And that’s only if its the warmup race for the night! Otherwise every race should be a long, hard, fast sufferfest where you don’t have to think, just f’ing ride HARD!!!!

from what i’ve seen the athleticism just isn’t there in order to take the track and its racers to the next level. and because of that it’ll always be dangerous.

this is opposite of the speedfix philosophy from what i’ve read

That doesn’t mean we think that the “unworthy” should be kicked out of cat 1/2 (at least not for anything that isn’t directly related to safety issues). We can sit here and debate this ad nauseum, but categorization is up to the track director, not us.

what do you propose for the 3k mass start test time standard? i really would like to know what you would envision for this.

you’d fail it

that’s just it smithers.. there is no written ediquette rules.. it’s learned. you’ve got it.. most do. but ediquitte issues i think will start to stack up when the ability level broadens when guys like bergman consistently show up.

The experience/etiquette problem comes from guys riding the track once a week, just to race. You see it in the warmups, guys don’t know that you should stay above the stayers line to pace or ride slow, do not go in the purusit lane unless you are busting a nut!

Amen. The scariest part of track racing is the warm-up. And I’ve also noticed that some of the most experienced trackies are the ones with etiquette issues.

The experience/etiquette problem comes from guys riding the track once a week, just to race.

Wait. Shit, that’s me. Oh no…whew…I’m not a guy.

race ediquette and general track etiquette are completely different..

the etiquette argumant is a spin off from team tactics. and racers coming from the road usually have it down.

Category and safety do not correlate. There are many a Cat 1 on the track who ride bat shit (think Hartwell/Nothstein run in with Bart Bell in ‘92). That was hors-category riding. Way beyond five, yet they were ones.

You’d waste a lot of time with testing and have to ban many top riders. Just have to be smart enough to give them room and make sure their tires are glued on. That’s all you can do.

Better to put the energy into more races with larger fields so everyone can get more experience.

one from the bleachers.

Timmer,

You and I were racing cat 4’s when I messed up the race. I made a Rookie move in a rookie cat. I was going so slow that the field caught up to me much quicker than expected. But I smoked the whole field terribly for the first 3 laps. As you know i apologized immediately after the race when I realized what I did.

Absolutely love racing track and if I mess up let me know and if someone else messes up I have no problem letting them know in a respectful manner. Racing is great crashing SUCKS.

I will train my ass off this winter so that you won’t have to worry about passing it anymore.

Blocking is a total poofter move.

Disrupting a pase line pulling back a chase should get you thrown in a ditch.

Riders here are over categorized – probably, but 99% of the people race localy anyway. It’s really only a concern if your planning to race nationally, and then your probably smart enough to know better.

Road cat does not equal track cat, totaly different. Put any track 1 in a 1/2 RR and they wont finish, except timmer and bergman. JT is a national champ, and very deserving, it doesn’t mean he should race 1/2 on the road. Your training for different things.

Before anyone takes a shot at me, I’ll have you know I’m an expert in every sense, except experience.

Tuffy, you know the drill. I’ll expect your report on my desk no later than 0800 tomorrow.

Timmer,

I’m a cat 3 on the road. I’m a cat 2 on the track. Do you think I should downgrade? I don’t. In fact, I just applied for my cat 1 last night. I chose to focus on racing the track. I don’t enjoy road racing, and haven’t put in the time to raise my category. Does that mean that my dedication to track racing was all for naught? When did road become the gold standard? Track and road are two different creatures. Don’t tell me I’m not good enough for my category on the track because of my category on the road.

This last month I’ve travelled around racing some of the most skilled, talented, and developed racers in the world. I started off getting absolutely killed. I was happy when I finished somewhere other than DFL. In less than 3 weeks I was getting on the podium regularly.

Did I get that much faster in only 3 weeks? No. I got smarter. I learned how to race better. I had the physical ability, but I needed the knowledge and the experience. My time in a mass start time trial (isn’t that an oxymoron?) probably wouldn’t have improved significantly, but my racing ability sure did.

-Brian Crosby

I’ll vouch for painman, he showed up to the track one night, raced in the Cat 4 field, won all the races and then retired. He is the MAN!!!

brian, you’re an exception to the ‘local rule’. and you’re pursuing it euro or australian style rather than the US way (eg brad mcgee, stu ogrady, brad wiggins etc). look at how limited to US talent pool is accross the board. the UK and Australia have B-teamers that would better our entire track team. but you are one in a 100,000 in that you have the passion and the drive to take the step you’ve taken. and of course it a good one. my argument is about the current situation with how local racing is structured at the VD. and it’s a touchy subject cuz local racers have put in their time.. but the athleticism of some of the cat 2 on the track is in serious question imho.

i thought this was about tactics?

but on the topic of catergoies;
they should be up to bob.

and he should, no, he NEEDS to be ALOT more strict/harsh about upgrades and downgrades.

for example:
space needs to upgrade.
harrick needs to downgrade.

make it so, bob.

this has all gotten so dramatic.
…i guess it is the winter ritual, bitch about something track-related til spring.

i think this discussion is lamer than team tactic on the track.

plus, timmer isn’t going to show up unless we cover the thing anyway, so who cares what he thinks?

i’m selling my track bike.
fuck the track.

The whole point that I’m trying to make is that someone can drastically improve their performance by improving their skills and increasing their experience. As such, a cagey racer like Ferris who is well suited to the track and dedicated to pursuing that discipline can win the State Scratch race without having the fitness to hang with the cat 1/2s on the road. It just goes to show how powerful a skilled racer can be. Do you think that you could have beat him in that scratch race? I have my doubts. You will school him in a road race, but we’re talking track here. Let the two be seperate but complimentary. A rider’s status in one should not dictate their standing in the other.

p.s. there is no way strats showed up once a week.

p.p.s. it would be rad if she did though…

Athleticism? I guess I have to apologize to the other Track Cat2’s for Timmers call on this one. I should’ve never brought my pear shaped body to HED HQ yesterday!

So Smithers, I’ve put you in charge of CatSkibby. I want you to submit a list of riders who are eligible for CatSkibby and I’ll put on my willie teal USA cycling referee shirt and give them all an downgrade which is really an upgrade because CatSkibby is way cooler than Cat2!

Timmer maybe it is as easy as everyone needs to take a refresher class 2 or 3 hours before they can do their first race of the year. Doesn’t matter if you are Tainter or fall of 2007 certified cat 4.

To literally create a new classification system for mass start events verses sprint or timed events is not realistic.

Would something like this be worth a try? Most guys will not have ridden the track more than once or twice before the first race of the year. It would be great just to get together and run some drills.

food issues.. overcome man. i did.

seriously though.. i haven’t complained one bit about having to work through the upgrade process.. glad to do it. I’m still a cat 3. it needs to be a part of the track ‘program’.. i think bob’s (or JT’s) classes should also be mandatory (or are they?). this all goes back to the tactics argument; when you have a wide range of physical abilities in the cat 1/2 (for example) it channges the dynamics of the racing.. it becomes way more negative and i think more dangerous. we could have a number of new racers up there in 08; homme, tone, maybe swansons, doig (?) you never know.. slowly but surely you(we) could see that ability window open even wider. and i think having either a ‘test’ or a category cap (match road ability) will balance out the dynamics some.

sorry about that sprint too.. i did think about it (letting you have it) but i think i was on a serotta

Since when is this conversation about tactics?

That isn’t worthy of coverage.

Is CatSkibby taking nominations because I know that Donimator is looking for an excuse.

we could have a number of new racers up there in 08; homme, tone, maybe swansons, doig (?) you never know.

um. okay.

tone: he won’t come.
homme: to busy eating burritos
swansons: doug I don’t know about, but dan and i hang out ALLLLL the time and he was telling me no way.
doig: just had a baby girl and might not have the time.

the real question is will timmer show up more than once?

or will (dis) find someone to buy his bike? my guess is he is quitting because he wasn’t asked to join a team that can’t be mentioned.

hey all, the label on the can of worms read “lame team tactics’ .. and a nice constructive argument insued.

And Tuffy…while you’re at it, do a little background check on that b2b guy. I may have to move forward with this thing after all.

hey my participation woulda doubled if it weren’t for mother nature. two occasions it looked like it may not rain; unloaded shit; got duds on.. then fuckin drip drip drip pour. TWICE!

Let’s all raise our sippy cups to Toddler Smithers on his 2nd birthday. Hip, hip…

that NSC cross race opened some eyes.

and another thing, you have to be able to ride in a madison to be CatSkibby… sorry Timmer, guess you gotta ride with the Cat 3’s….

a) I’m not a newby on the track and I’m undefeated like Macy.

b) I’m only doing 1 race at the track next year, “Fastest Man in the World” competition where Homme wipes the track up with Timmer’s sorry self.

c) are we to a hundred yet?

d) Smithers is a pro at this, the blood is still fresh on the statecx runup and we’ve already got the trackies goin at it tooth-and-nail.

“The whole point that I’m trying to make is that someone can drastically improve their performance by improving their skills and increasing their experience. As such, a cagey racer like Ferris who is well suited to the track and dedicated to pursuing that discipline can win the State Scratch race without having the fitness to hang with the cat 1/2s on the road. It just goes to show how powerful a skilled racer can be. Do you think that you could have beat him in that scratch race? I have my doubts. You will school him in a road race, but we’re talking track here. Let the two be seperate but complimentary. A rider’s status in one should not dictate their standing in the other.”

I do in fact. i watched it. i got the inside scoop on how he did it and every bit of it breaches the code of conduct regarding etiquette.. but yes, that’s track racing.

doh, i fuct up.. i saw the Keiren and no i couldn’t beat him there.. didn’t see the scratch race.

that NSC cross race opened some eyes

goddamn right.

the track rulez!

What I’ve noticed in the few (very few) times that I’ve been up to the track in the last few years is a seeming lack of depth in the 1’s and 2’s. By that I mean the fact that many of the “old guard” guys who had been around for a while and who had traveled to other tracks and been to national events don’t come out any more. There weren’t many of them, but they new how to keep things safe and, more importantly, interesting. The tendency up at the track is for the field to know each other so well that the races all start to follow a script. Adam will lap us, so we’ll let him go. Ferris will sit in and sprint, so we won’t even try to drop him. Rider X will attack but never go anywhere, so we’ll ignore him. Etc. etc. It gets old.

Without someone to shake things up, nobody learns anything. That’s the beauty of going to another track. You don’t know anyone. They don’t know you. You learn more in one night than you do in a whole season at your home track.

All the new riders at the track are great. It’s great to see new talent. We just need some depth again. We used to have it with fields of six. Now we need it with fields of twenty. That’s OK. I’ll take that deal any day. Maybe if Brian is racing here next summer he’ll school everyone. And Ben. And Adam will keep it fast. The experience builds every year.

All that said, I think there comes a time when some people (myself included) need to consider downgrading. There are years when upgrades are easier to come by than others. Not all riders in a given category took the same road to their level. On the road there are a “statistically significant” number of riders to race against each year, so a III tends to be a III. On the track its not always the same. If I were starting to race 2007 I’m sure I wouldn’t have upgraded as fast as I did. It’s way more difficult to upgrade now that the fields are bigger, there’s more road cross-over talent, and there are more hanz and franz pure-talent people showing up.

So I guess I’m saying we need more old-timers but in lower categories…

More chicks need to comment on here. That’s right, I called’em chicks.

Dis – I totally didn’t show up once a week, but I’ll use the same excuse as Timmer…it was the unpredictable weather.

Shake things up? How about a handicap race? Adam laps the field? How about he start two laps down? Rider X starts with X points, etc. Everyone starts at the same time, but with different points and laps. A well handicapped race will have everyone racing down to the line.

On another note, maybe someone from Minnesota could win a few medals in the Olympics at the track to draw attention to the velodrome and get more people out to the races.

i never even raced the track but i think 100 comments is what we should all be shooting for here.

seriously, you track guys make cx guys seem like a reasonable bunch.

#86. No Comment.

or better yet, can we convince other tracks racers to come here?

like a 4 weekend series, with one here, one in kenosha, one in indianapolis, and one in northbrook… with big cash purse for the overall.

less cost for all tracks to throw a big event, but more out-of-town interest.

like a midwest radius series, minus the circus races.

we could call it, “The Spencer rules. he is like racer x off the front, but no one cares Series”.

p.s. dome the drome.

cleary said: seriously, you track guys make cx guys seem like a reasonable bunch.

yeah but the track guys bitch at each other while the cx guys just whine at the officials and cry co-ordinators. I’d much rather be a track guy…

From the peanut gallery in the bleachers; Adam puts you all to Shame. Next year I want to see him being attacked left and right but unfortunately I don’t think you guys have the walnuts.

At least a non-track specific team is in the New York Times this week

Whoa, what a testosterone fest! I think you should consider taking your track events in more of a Portland freak-cross direction — beer hand-ups, riding in dresses, etc. It would be good for you. (Doing my part to push the comments to 100)

Smithers

Your glass is half empty again, just be glad you made it to the dirt and we weren’t on a bridge.

Timmer makes an interesting point, he along with all other has to work their way up, seemingly through ability and tactic along with a good chunk of etiquitte(hopefully). SHould the same be said for keeping a cat, i.e. should a guy or chic get an automatic down grade if they don’t earn points?

Should cross run like the track, everyone starts as a 4/5 and you have to work your way up, might not be a bad idea.

#93

If track cycling goes in the portland freak direction, I’ll buy the dynamite to blow up the fucking track… who will buy the detonator?

Dominator probably already owns one.

let’s just race for it.

if timmer wins he gets to decide everything.

timmer v. ?

coldsprints. tonight.

who’s gonna challenge him for velodrome rule-making rights?

who’s gonna challenge him for velodrome rule-making rights?

do they have to be athletic?

wish i could but it’d kill me.. i go anaerobic walking up the stairs with laundry. i’m done. but put something on the line in Feb and you’d better wear depends when you see the numbers i throw down.. with one leg.

Good point Macy.

Maybe track rider should have to earn enough points each year to maintain their category? It’d provide a lot more incentive for people to show up and race hard for some points–even if they are third or fourth place points. That’d force some strategery on the pack-filler guys like me.

99

100

that’s a good one flood.. maybe drop the season long TROY to 12 specific races so people don’t race negative in order to protect their troy standings.. when races stand alone they tend to be faster and more, dare i say, tactical.

Flood I disagree with your take. Basically we had that system in place last year with the TROY system. Up to 8th place scored points. So guys would race for 8th place to get points. That doesn’t mean racing hard, or racing to win. All it means is beating the other non-athletic jokers. So Adam can still lap the filed 8 times and Grumpies and the team that cannot be discussed will strategorize with TEAM TACTICS to score (IMHO) meaningless points….

I say leave it as it is. Until the fast roadies show up it doesn’t really matter. Once the racing gets harder because either us non-athletes have gotten faster or faster riders (aka Doug Swanson, Aric Hareland, Dan Casper et al) start showing up, then the wheat will separate from the chaff….

All of our top 10s finishers in TROY is an obvious result of our negative racing.

Sheesh.

105

whats troy?

this thread could go all the way!

Who said you guys were non-athletes besides me 100’s of times. I’m bettin’ most of y’all couldn’t draw iron on the basketball court. Not you Skibby, I think you got game.

I agree with Flood.

athletes can dunk the ball and run 4.4 40’s. I disagree with Painman and Flood… fast guys show up, wheat and chaff baby, you don’t need no fucking points to tell you who’s fast…

Skibby might have a point but TAFKAS obviously had a few beers at lunch.

Wheat and Chaff is alwayse good, especially in cereal.

Why can’t we talk about Speed Fix? Is this a new team tactic?

Darwinism,
Bob preaches all the time, if someone is blocking or riding slow, go around him. If someone is dangerous, make the race hard, pop them. Instead of having points schemes or qualifying races, all you need is the officials to pull lapped riders in the 1-2 field and the wheat will separate from the chaff… and then we can put it on our cereal for a recovery snack…

everone bring towel and bar of soap.. pad-lock if someone breaks something..

“All of our top 10s finishers in TROY is an obvious result of our negative racing.

Sheesh”

you’ve got it backwards; and negative racing define: when you don’t race to win, you race to keep others from winning.

smithers; of the 100+ comments how many are timmers?

Tuffy didn’t comment at all…

tuffy’s tactics are crystal clear.

smithers; of the 100+ comments how many are timmers?

27

tuffy actually wins races.. 28

I think they should rename the team after Tuffy.

“Tuffguy Racing”